1989 150, can't get to 250rpm to spark

[NRGNUKE]

I have been following the forums for about 3 years now. I am looking to get my sleekcraft on Lake Coeur D Alene this year. However I am having a difficult time with spark. Here is what I know:

150STLCOS 150hp unknown johnoson or evinrude.
I have a new 750mca deep cycle battery
the engine sparks without plugs
the engine will not reach 250rpm's with plugs in-no spark
I disconnected the controls and remote start; no spark with plugs in, spark without plugs around 300rpm
3 cylinders at 110 and one at 95
I think I will redo the head gaskets and set
I replaced the starter with an aftermarket rebuilt from e-bay (could be bad)
new hydraulic pump motor
I isolated a bad coil in cylinder number 3 I think (right bank center)

I have read that I need 250rpm's and a 850cca battery to get this thing started
I have never had it running in the time I have had it. I took it down and put a new impeller when I got it. now the fuel bulbs and lines are shot which I will replace. I have 3 fuel pumps for it, two of which I found at a garage sale for $5, lol.

So this is most of what I can find other than, this particular model appears to be less common. Any insight into my problem or confirmation on the battery size would be hugely helpful. I will post if I find a fix for any of my problems. Thanks

Update: found this is actually a 1985, it has been a while, I had a 89' black max, so must have been confused

[NRGNUKE]

it is a 1985

so quick update, been thinking it was an 89, but turns out it is a 85 model

[Joe Reeves]

Yes, your model number indicates you have a 1985 model. The make can be determined by the letter in front of the model number which you don't have listed... either a "J" or a "E".

You've already diagnosed your problem to be a slow cranking engine. If you have a top notch fully charged battery, run known good jumper cables from that battery directly to the starter.

If the cranking speed improves, the starter is okay and you have a loose cable or tight but dirty cables somewhere in the starting circuit... remove, clean , and re-install all cables and wires including the battery terminals.

If the cranking speed does not improve, your starter needs reworking.

[NRGNUKE]

thanks for the reply, this is helpful.

I should have mentioned that I have checked the cables and the starter is new (doesn't mean it is good) and I did a teste for voltage and I think something else to see if it was a bad cable as I had heard of that happening. I will double check it again. I know that I have a 750mca deep cycle witch in my opinioin might be the problem, as I don't see mca and cca being the same. It is new and pumps nearly 13v, I will charge it and double check now.

Oh and thanks fro the reply on "E" or "J" but interesting enough it has nothing in front of the model number, I thought maybe it was a weird military model or something but nothing has shown up for it.

[NRGNUKE]

Ok I did some messing around with the motor yesterday, first time since I moved to Idaho form Arizona (Arizona heat and sun is brutal on boats)

1. I found the E in front of 150stl so it is an evinrude (e was buried at the edge)
2. I bought a new battery yesterday and this did help, I will explain
3. bought remote starter

So I have red spark, not blue if this means anything

ok so the first part:
I tested with all plugs in: no spark
tested with all plugs out: good spark
tested with 1 plug in: good spark
tested with 1 plug in #1, same number 1 coil: no spark
tested with 1 plug in #2, tester at number 1: spark
tested with 2 plugs in #2,#3 tester @#1: spark, weaker
tested with 3 plugs in #2,#3,#6 tester @#1: spark, weak
tested with 4 plugs in #2,#3,#6,#5 tester @#1: no spark

Replaced battery with 900cca 1000+ca
Nearly same result, except I was able to get spark with 1 more plug, so 4 plugs in all
I charged the battery and got spark on 5 plugs intermittently.

Changed the starter out back to the original (noticed the new one was shaving some teeth) Got a little better spark.

Neighbor who is a diesel mechanic mentioned the starter could be creating too much draw, so I cleaned the grounds I could find except the one from the motor to the lower end which I will replace.

I also noticed that the positive power lead from the battery was frayed but the wire was fine. I jumpered the batter with cables to the starting solenoid, and nothing changed.

I am wondering where the spark gets its power now? Does it come from the stator or from the battery? I am guessing the stator.

Also could a bad solenoid cause this? I am guessing no, but crazy things can happen.

So the slower the motor turns over the weaker the park.

the neighbor covered #1 with his finger and tested spark on coil # and got no spark with the other plugs out. It is strange that with the plug in on the particular coil I am testing that spark disappears on that one. So I put a plug in #1 and tested #2 for spark and sure enough there was spark. So not a bad hole.

So my question is, if I pull my stator and clean it up, does it sound reasonable that the spark will get stronger? and may fix my problem? or maybe I have to replace it? Are there tests I can perform with basic testers to see if my stator is bad?

Thanks, I know this is a lot, but I wanted to be as thorough as I could. I am sure I left something out and maybe a little confusing.

[Joe Reeves]

NOTE... You made the statement that read: "3 cylinders at 110 and one at 95" indicating 4 cylinders. If you have a 4 cylinder engine you DO NOT have a 150hp engine.

The stator is a two fold component.

There are two large black coils, one at the extreme front and one at the extreme rear portion of the stator... these two coils provide approximately 300 AC volts to the powerpack's capacitor. If either of these two large black coils start to melt down, dripping a sticky looking substance down on the timer base or the powerhead, replace it regardless of whatever reading you may obtain with a ohm meter etc.

If that stator is melting down, that results in weak erratic ignition/spark and eventually no ignition.

DO NOT EVER apply battery voltage to the stator or any part of the ignition system as direct voltage will destroy it!

There are also a series of smaller coils in that stator which pertain to the battery charging system, hence the two fold designation.

RED spark is just as bad as yellow spark. The spark must jump a 7/16" gap with a strong lightning like BLUE flame... a real SNAP!

[NRGNUKE]

ya, I lose my mind sometimes. 5 cylinders @110 and 1 @ 95

[NRGNUKE]

Does this sound pretty reasonable that the stator could be bad then? I will pull it in the next few days. My wife is hounding me about the honey-do list.

[NRGNUKE]

so I picked up a puller yesterday since I couldn't find my tools in the storage unit after I moved. I went to pull the bolt from the flywheel, but couldn't find a good way to stop the engine from moving. I do have some nice tusk tools for stopping the gear but not sure I would have enough strength to use both at the same time. any suggestions?

I took some video of the fire last night, and even got the spark to jump with nice orang/red fire over 1/2inch. but this is still not what we are looking for. I tried to test the wires for voltage disconnected but nothing. The green wire on port side has a small melt/gash in the casing. I tested it there with the wires fully connected. I was getting crazy readings. I think my testers got too much head in Arizona, gonna have to pick-up a new one. I tested the wires disconnected and got nothing. Only when the wires were connected did I get anything. Which wires am I testing? the 4 wire bundle or the 2 wire. I have a online manual somewhere for wiring, but I think it is lost in my archives.

[NRGNUKE]

I pulled the flywheel and the stator. the stator appears to be in good condition. The pickups were covered in black, I am ***uming paint but could be plastic, though the housing appears to be without flaw. I took pictures. I cleaned up the pickups and magnets and reinstalled. The 4wire bundles I thought before were actually part of the basket, which also looked to be in good shape. I repaired one of the wires that had a nick out of it.

I now have blue fire but still looses spark when I get to 4 spark plugs installed. I noticed that the rectifier had a soft top and looks to be damaged. Could a bad rectifier prevent good spark to the power packs? I tested the wires coming from the stator, yellow I am guessing are the power. it appeared that I got 12 volts in resting position. I don't know what that means.

I downloaded a manual today, gonna have a look at the wiring diagram. I wish I had a power flow chart. If anyone has any thoughts, I am all ears. thanks.

[Joe Reeves]

The Yellow wires leading from the stator pertain to the charging system (series of small coils lining the sides of the stator).

The Brown and Brown/Yellow wires supply approximately 300 AC volts from the large Black coils to the powerpack capacitor.

It is impossible to test for spark with the spark plugs installed as that causes the rpm to drop. In reality, the spark is tested with the spark plugs removed.

Also, in reality, when attempting to start the engine, even though the spark doesn't exist when testing with the plug installed, eventually spark will fire on one cylinder which enables a higher rpm just long enough to fire the other cylinders. Yes, I know it doesn't sound right but that's the way it works out.... as long as proper spark exists when testing with all spark plugs removed.

[NRGNUKE]

*** that is awesome that you said that. It does make sense in a strange way and I totally get it. I will apply some premixed gas today and see if I can get an ignition. the Blue spark is jumping over 1/2 inch, doesn't seem super strong, but I will have a look anyway. I couldn't get any kind of read from the brown wires while testing though, so I am ***uming they have to complete a circuit and I would have to test while plugged in.

My fuel lines are fouled up so I will do some work there too. Hopefully I can get something to ignite

If I can just get this thing to start, maybe I can start fixing some of the other things that need fixing.

Thanks for the info.

[NRGNUKE]

so I am thinking the stator is bad. I remounted my starter and got better seating so the gears link up better and things seem to turn better, sounds better too.

So I got a new tester and tested the brown wires installed through the casing. I got 38/33volts port side and 34/33volts on the starboard side. I am wondering if I might have the tester set on the wrong setting but can't imagine how. It is supposed to be an auto range sensing tester. If I really have these voltages, is my stator most likely bad. I am stalling ordering one, but I might miss a good deal if I don't get on it. I found many stator part numbers that are interchangeable. I can't find anything saying if I have a 9/10/35amp stator though. Any Ideas? Thanks

Let me know if there is another forum that I should take this too. I am looking to do a full write up that is condensed so things make a little more sense.

Thanks, Jeremy

[NRGNUKE]

one last note. I am going to pull the stator one more time because I want to have a better look at the timing base. I also am wanting to look at the wires coming from the powerpacks and confirm that they are going to the correct coils.

[NRGNUKE]

so just for curiosity I removed the plugs again, disconnected the controls and checked for spark. I got good spark. Applied pre-mixed fuel with all plugs installed and plugged in and this time crazy thing, I got good spark with all the plugs in. I applied fuel, and had good spark but no fire. I am guessing the motor won't run without the controls connected. So I connected the controls with everything the way it was and this time I still had good spark with plugs in. I applied fuel and nothing. I increased the idle, still nothing. I pushed in on the key with the throttle up and it fired. It is consistently firing now. I don't want to run it yet because I need it in a better position to run water to it. I am not out of the woods yet though. I have a long ways to go.

Things I need to do.

1. get my fuel lines straight, bulbs are bad, but got new ones and new lines
2. get water to it and get it running (this is gonna be the challenge, but hopefully this will be one of the things that goes right)
3. tune
4. test drive
5. water test

I hope things just go smooth. I think now that it is firing I should check the voltage going to the power packs again. The earlier readings must have been missing something and were at 330volts or something, like the tester was missing a point.

as I progress, I will get things together and start a new thread